That's All, Folks!

[00:00:00]

ChristineAll

Speaker 8right. Cheers, 110 episodes. Last

Christinenot least. Awesome. LOL.

Speaker 8Thank you guys. The Judgmental

Christinelike I said, we're taking a hiatus just for a lot of different reasons, but

Speaker 8download Judge-Y, the

Christineapp,

Speaker 8listen to, share our old episodes, share them with your legislatures,

Christineshare them with your friends. We're not getting rid of any

Speaker 8of

Christinecontent in any

Treycapacity. Oh, no, no, no. We're putting, yeah,

Speaker 7we're, we're actually putting the time into

Treythe app, the websites, the content, that kind

Speaker 7of stuff. Mm-hmm. And that's sort of

Treyw- taking a step

Speaker 7back from spending the time on

Treypodcast- Yeah ...

Speaker 7and putting it more toward development of the core-

Speaker 8Because our-

Speaker 7features ...

Speaker 8you

Christinewe've, when we first started talking

Speaker 8about

Christineour

Speaker 8goal really was

Christinepass the torch. I

Speaker 8I mean, and to let

Christineguys

Speaker 8have the ability to judge the judges

Christinethey judge you- Yeah ... and not be living in this space. I left family

Speaker 8court

ChristineI despise everything

Speaker 8about it. I do wanna say that we are officially downloaded in [00:01:00] 69 countries, less than one year.

ChristineIt's gone up two since yesterday.

TreyYeah, that, I mean, that, that blows my mind. Mm-hmm. But it is, it

Speaker 7is

Treycool. Yeah.

Speaker 7And it is funny you say that

Treythis

Speaker 7was something, as we were building the app,

Treyto sort of build up the discussion- Yeah ...

Speaker 7Yeah ...and start interviewing and talking with other

Treywithin the judicial accountability

Speaker 7movement. Yep. And that's all that it was. And it

Treylike once we launched, or we,

Speaker 7we

Treywhen

Speaker 7we were gonna launch- Mm ...it was like, "Well, this

Treyfun."

ChristineYeah. "

TreyWe'll keep it up."

ChristineYeah.

Speaker 8And it is- And it's, ...

Speaker 8Fun and also taxing. Yeah. I mean, it's more taxing to you. You're putting yourself out there. You're reading the comments.

Treydoing- Mm-hmm ... more of that research. I'm doing a lot more of the technical- Yeah ... side where I'm shielded from all of that, so.

Speaker 8Yeah. I think it'll be good to just take a step back in the sense like how is, like how big picture, because it's too in my face and the retaliation is so extensive that it's

ChristineI just gotta reset. You know, I don't owe my life

Speaker 8to this movement. We built

Christinewhat could be a huge movement, and will be. But [00:02:00] we don't owe our day-to-day, not sleeping at night,

Speaker 8you know. I can't hold your traumas. The- Guys, I'm not, I'm a lawyer. My whole platform is saying lawyers can't be emotional

Christinelike we're not

Speaker 7built like that. Well, that's one reason you don't do it anymore.

Speaker 8Yeah.

Speaker 7Yeah. I mean, that was, yeah, that was one of the miserable things about family court. Yeah. Because you couldn't do a good job if you

Treycare. Yeah.

Speaker 7And you had to take on the trauma to a certain extent. Mm-hmm You got a,

Treyknow, a good lawyer

Speaker 7is

Treythat knows where that line is- Yeah to where you're not taking

Speaker 7on the trauma to the point

Treybeing a

Speaker 7friend

Treyof your

Speaker 7client.

TreyYou're,

Speaker 7you're understanding the, the trauma, and you're getting into it enough

Treyto where you fight hard-

Speaker 7Yep ... but you have

Treystill stay that one step removed. Yeah. And when we're researching

Speaker 7some of these things

Treytalking to

Speaker 7the actual people involved in them, it's it's

Treysimilar-

ChristineUh-huh to being back in

Speaker 8the practice Except we're doing it for free. Yeah.

ChristineWhich is hard

Speaker 8to set

Christineboundary, and

Speaker 8not that I don't

Christinethere's, like, some

Speaker 8level of moral obligation. Also, I

Christineit's, like,

Speaker 8down the rabbit hole

Christineof just how much bigger the

Speaker 8[00:03:00] systematic problems

Christineare is what will perpetually shock me perpetually. We just

Speaker 8got an email from California talking about- Yeah ... you know, and we're seeing the trends

Christinehappening

Speaker 8here that

Christinehappened in other places. But we do

Speaker 8appreciate

Christineguys, and this

Speaker 8is a Miller High Life.

ChristineI can't say your

Speaker 8age. I

Christinebe wrong. I'm 40, but you've never had

Speaker 8a

ChristineHigh Life, have you?

TreyNo,

Speaker 8No,

Speaker 7you

Treyit's funny.

Speaker 7I've known so many people that, like,

Treytheir beer

Speaker 7of choice. It's,

Speaker 8It's Miller time.

Speaker 7Yeah, Miller time. What'd you think? No, it's good. It's good. I mean, it's very light. Yeah. It- there's , no hops to it whatsoever. It's almost like

Treymalt liquor. Yeah.

Speaker 7Yeah. But it's- It tastes good. It doesn't have that

Treyobnoxious American rice watered down- Yeah, Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 7yeah ... beer taste. It actually is

Treypleasant taste.

ChristineI love a good Miller

Speaker 8High Life. Yeah. It's like white trash champagne of beers.

Speaker 7No, I mean, I grew up, watching... Yeah, I'm what, 48 now. I grew up watching, like, when they

Treyto advertise

Speaker 7and

Treyrace cars would have

Speaker 7High Life

Treyall- Yeah this stuff on

Speaker 7it. So as a kid it always seemed like you always saw the champagne of beers,

Treyit was, like,

Speaker 7the classy stuff. And then I'd... No one I [00:04:00] knew drank High Life growing up.

Speaker 8Oh, and then, like, I... Oh, everybody I knew drank High Life

Christineup, but

Speaker 8it's awesome.

Speaker 7Oh, no. Everybody, like

TreyWe yeah, I definitely

Speaker 7grew up in a place where you

Treya lot

Speaker 7more, like, Icehouse and Busch Light. Yeah. I

Christinewas... And so my last

Speaker 8name's Miller, too, and so I would always, like... And this is

Christinethat would probably cause

Speaker 8you to lose your kids, you know, but when I was,

Christine10 years

Speaker 8old, they'd

Christineme in, like, Miller

Speaker 8gear,

Christinebeer

Speaker 8gear. Oh, yeah. You know, I thought it was so cool

Christinebe like, "Oh, my name's

Speaker 8on stuff."

Speaker 7Oh, no. I'm sure. I remember that. Yeah. I remember, like...

TreyOh,

Speaker 7man, I had friends that I guess

Treymiddle school age, little bit older into lower high school, that would collect, I mean, smoking was just- Yeah ... much more prevalent. , They would collect the Marlboro from everyone they knew and use those Marlboro points,

Speaker 7and

Treybuy jackets-

Speaker 7Yeah and gears, and, you know, you get the stuff from their racing team. And Yeah ...I had the friend that

Treytwo

Speaker 7friends that they collected so much

Treythat stuff that they went on, like, this racing weekend where they got to drive

Speaker 7these cars on

Treytrack,

Speaker 7and it was all by Marlboro. I'm a s- Now you just think of how a judge

Trey[00:05:00] treat

Speaker 7that now if that came up, or an FOC would treat that.

Speaker 8Oh, totally.

Christinemean, it's like,

Speaker 8yeah, we were Camel

ChristineMy gramps smoked

Speaker 8Camels. Oh, yeah. And I mean,

Christinehave a coffee

Speaker 8cup

Christinesays

Speaker 8Camel.

Christineyes,

Speaker 8nowadays you would have an expert just talking about how you are d- you know, destroying this person's childhood

Christinelife.

TreyWell,

Speaker 7Camel was interesting 'cause they were the ones that were actually advertising

Treykids. Like, they were- Totally ... still

Speaker 7when I was growing

TreyI don't recall that

Speaker 7with the Marlboro stuff. They were always

Treytrying to be

Speaker 7cool. Like, Camel-

Speaker 8Have you ever heard that conspiracy that the Camel was the sex scene?

TreyNo.

ChristineOh,

Speaker 8I'll have to tell

Speaker 9you

Speaker 8afterwards.

ChristineBut yeah,

Speaker 8they were targeting kids, I think, right? Oh,

Speaker 7yeah. I

Treyit was

Speaker 7appeal- it was, there

Treythere's something cool about it. Like Joe Camel, I remember Joe Camel

Speaker 7gear, but we... Yeah, Marlboro had

Treyof the

Speaker 7car racing stuff, so

Treythat's what

Speaker 7we were into.

Speaker 8We've got on our community our questions. I guess we can leave y- the audience with a couple things that are happening on the big cases. Bridgeman case, like we talked about, nothing was filed by the GAL in public record. It does look like [00:06:00] order's come down, and there's gonna be a case management conference coming up soon.

TreyYeah. It's, I don't know. I fear that We've got a case where there are no grounds to seal it. Mm-hmm. And they're finding procedural ways around the sealing the case, but trying to keep everything confidential and not in the public record.

Speaker 7I, it ju- I don't know. I don't have any proof of that, that's kind of how it smells me, that there's- Yeah. Well- ... there's something going on here. '

Speaker 8Cause we talked last time and it was like, oh, maybe they've got a resolution because something wasn't filed, which would make sense. That would absolutely make sense, then there was an order coming out which sort

Christineaddresses it. It

Speaker 8makes me wonder, you

Christineand

Speaker 8obviously if that's

Christinecase, the FBI

Speaker 8needs

Christineget involved in that because you

Speaker 8have to req- They, they... I'm not kidding. Like, I know that's like LOL funny, but if public officials

Christineare utilizing court systems to do anything

Speaker 8not on the up, I'm not saying federal fucking prison, but

Christinewhy do we not have federal

Speaker 8investigations [00:07:00]

Christinegenerally speaking? Oh, you mean

Speaker 7like if like,

Treyhere's the

Speaker 7procedure, this case is

Treysealed. Stuff needs to be filed and become part of the record. Mm-hmm. If it, stuff's

Speaker 7being done on this shadow docket and it's not being actually- Yeah ...

Treyever

Christineput-

TreyE-filed ... on the

Speaker 7r-record- Yeah ... d- why? Why would that be

Treythe case? Who,

Speaker 7who are we doing favors for? Why are we doing this? Right. And when you- Like, I don't understand

Christinecoupled with the confidential

Speaker 8hearing where somebody stayed in the hearing for the duration of it,

Speaker 7And how does that affect attorneys that are involved, not just courts itself, like doing that? I guess, though- Yeah. That's- I mean, Yeah, I so.

TreyI mean, if I'm involved as an attorney, you're almost certainly your client would rather their personal business not be

Speaker 7public, so

TreyI don't know.

Speaker 7Just-

Speaker 8Yeah, but

Christinethe-

TreyIt

Christineraises a question ...

Speaker 8conundrum really as far as like where the line is drawn. Also, I mean, that case

Christinefreak me out, like

Speaker 8that fixer stuff. Like, I'm just like,

ChristineI f-

Speaker 8fucking live in Shelby Park.

Christinecan't

Speaker 8go up

Christinea billion-dollar family that's clearly, in my

Speaker 8opinion, not abiding by the rules. Now,

ChristineI'm not saying the [00:08:00] whole family, but the fact that somebody got access to

Speaker 8a conf- It's

Christineweird. And again, maybe

Speaker 8I'm too close

Christinethe situation '

Speaker 8cause I

Christineall the submissions and maybe

Speaker 8it's just, like, too much

Christineso I need to get a

Speaker 8clean perspective, but this case gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Speaker 7Yeah, it, there's a lot in it that

Treybad, but- Mm-hmm ... again, I don't have personal knowledge of it, so it's hard f- hard for me to

Speaker 7tell. But it's the kind of stuff that, you know, I have enough

Treyover in family court to know

Speaker 7that when you have higher profile people in cases, things get handled differently.

Speaker 8Mm-hmm. Speaking of, to segue to that the Matt Bevin case,

Christinebench

Speaker 8warrant was issued. He showed up remote. I hadn't read the order because I,

ChristineI

Speaker 8don't think, for whatever reason, and maybe this is allowed 'cause we noticed it last time with Angela Johnson, the bench warrants aren't getting e-filed, but maybe they

ChristineThey

Speaker 8just, I know bench warrants actually do just go into another system, but there's just like a little notation of it.

ChristineYou know, it's one of

Speaker 8those case, they got

Christinehearing without

Speaker 8a motion being filed, and then I guess

Christinejudge said that she

Speaker 8even emailed

Christineparties

Speaker 8[00:09:00] two days before the hearing

Christinebe like, "Remember,

Speaker 8you have to

Christineup".

TreyWell, she's ... Now, to be

Speaker 7fair, I've not been following every single step of it the way that you have,

Treyand I know that

Speaker 7I've

Treymultiple times where

Speaker 7it has been made crystal clear that the parties are to be there in person.

ChristineYeah. No, but ...

Speaker 8Oh,

Speaker 7sorry. And regardless of whether you think that that, you know,

Treyyou

Speaker 7should do that or not or allow

Treyto

Speaker 7be remote because you hate

Treyremote stuff. I

Speaker 7think the remote stuff is very very helpful in a lot of ways. But

Treyif a

Speaker 7judge tells you to do something

Treyyou don't do it, you might

Speaker 7actually face

Treycontempt.

ChristineWell, there's gotta

Speaker 8be a

Christinecourt order with notice. I

Speaker 8never

Christinea

Speaker 8summons to appear, which again, I've advised you guys this,

ChristineI'm If you

Speaker 8issue a summons to a fucking peer, you

Christineissue a fucking bench

Speaker 8warrant.

Christinedon't know

Speaker 8why they don't do that.

Speaker 7No, I ... That

Treytrue.

Speaker 7I, yeah, I didn't

Treyabout

Speaker 7that. That certainly clarifies and makes everything- Yeah ... I

Treyif you

Speaker 7do a summons,

Treypeople

Speaker 7have

Treyshow up.

Speaker 7Yeah. Why ... Yeah. Do the summons.

Speaker 8Because they, I don't know

Christinethey don't do it,

Speaker 8but-

Speaker 7Yeah. That's interesting.

Speaker 8Yeah. And then I did [00:10:00] think to some degree it was like ...

ChristineOh

Speaker 8look, the sentencing just showed up.

ChristineAnd

Speaker 8it was filed a couple days ago,

Christineit just

Speaker 8showed up on my thing. I hadn't looked at it yesterday.

ChristineThe emailing the parties

Speaker 8to remind them, to me- Yeah

Christinefucking weird. Yeah. That shows you're, you're not emailing every single person on

Speaker 8on the dependency, neglect, and abuse.

ChristineFriendly reminder, crack is whack. Don't

Speaker 8beat

Christinekids.

Speaker 8You know?

TreyNo, that is true. But no,

Speaker 7I always

Treyit

Speaker 7and

TreyI

Speaker 7r- had a lot of the kinda cases

Treywe would get emails from staff about certain things

Speaker 7and part of it I just always assumed was because

Treywe

Speaker 7could save everybody a whole lot of time. And then again, like if a court is speaking to all parties, it's, there's

Treynecessarily

Speaker 7wrong with

Treyit's just,

Speaker 7it shows a different level

Treytreatment on certain types of cases. I just, I

Speaker 7had I s- had those cases and liked taking advantage of it. We, you know- Yeah, it shows- ... a lot of procedural things that we could

Treythat way without having to then file a motion

Speaker 7And

Treyour client's money.[00:11:00]

ChristineYeah.

Speaker 8It

Christinebias though. And again, that's why these judges,

Speaker 8I do think

Christinecare

Speaker 8more about cases

Christineget media

Speaker 8attention than they do about, you know,

Christinekids

Speaker 8getting abused.

Speaker 7I mean- Well, to me, I mean also, I don't know. To a certain extent I think that The attorneys that work on things a reasonable and you know if you have two attorneys

Treythey

Speaker 7may be fighting like cats

Treydogs but the scheduling thing

Speaker 7they will work together

Treyget it done. Yeah,

Speaker 7yeah,

Treyyeah. Then you might email out

Speaker 7saying they can do that we don't have to send them to the back at motion hour

Treydo it.

Speaker 8But you're not treating pro se people like

ChristineSo it's not- I don't know. It's a 14th- Yeah ... th- this is like it's a 14th Amendment issue. It's not

Speaker 8equal- Yeah ... protection. And I'll read what

Christinesays.

Speaker 8This is now- I would

Speaker 7I agree if you're not. Yeah. I just don't know,

TreyI don't,

Speaker 7I don't know- Right ...

Treythat on every judge's basis that they're

Speaker 7not doing pro se people. I would suspect that

Treynot.

Speaker 8It says, "Matt shall appear in person for sentencing because the hearing was

Christineaddress sensitive

Speaker 8blah, blah, blah.

ChristineAs a courtesy, the

Speaker 8court contacted counsel two days prior to

Christinehearing to

Speaker 8remind the parties of the [00:12:00] requirement

Christinepersonal attendance blah, blah, blah. Despite three different communications from the court indicating

Speaker 8his attendance

Christinein person was a requirement,

Speaker 8Matt chose to willfully disregard

Christinecourt's

Speaker 8order and attend in person." So here's the thing, and listen, I'm gonna tell you guys this,

ChristineIf you want, I

Speaker 8will make

Christinebet with

Speaker 8everyone

ChristineOh, boy. If you send

Speaker 8me

Christineemail that an attorney has sent

Speaker 8you, I can

Christineget 90% accuracy. I will

Speaker 8be able

Christinetell

Speaker 8you whether or not

Christineperson's a prior

Speaker 8prosecutor or

Christineor not. No

Treysh\*t. No, this would be fascinating. Mm-hmm. Oh,

Speaker 7then , we need instead of doing so many

Treypodcasts, we just need periodic game shows. Yeah,

Speaker 8yeah, yeah. Well, it's like... And

Christineare a

Speaker 8particular kind

Christinepeople, and again,

Speaker 8prosecutors are like cops. Some of the absolute people that I think have the highest moral integrity that I've ever met

Christinemy entire life, one of that, one of those people is a prosecutor, and one of those

Speaker 8two and a half people are cops. But prosecutors in general, as a [00:13:00] generalization,

Christineare unattractive-

TreyOh my

ChristineGod ...

Speaker 8Oh my God ...overweight losers, big boys and girls behind a keyboard, didn't get laid till they were 25.

ChristineSomebody

Speaker 8you don't ever wanna have a beer with, and they just pop off. And you can read this. Oh

Speaker 7my God.

Speaker 8Now, this reads like a prosecutor. Yeah. We, we-

Speaker 7It reads like

Treylegitimate

Speaker 7order, though. Like,

Treyit's... You have notice.

Speaker 7And I

Treyknew, like, I knew that

Speaker 7never having seen this order or

Treyorder regarding

Speaker 7this particular sentencing, she, this judge has

Treycrystal clear

Speaker 7that you need

Treybe

Speaker 7there. Well- And she has a problem

Treyhim when he's

Speaker 7ordered to be there, not showing up.

ChristineWell, here's my

Speaker 8other thing with it. There's a lot. So it gave him,

Christinetwo

Speaker 8weeks notice for a sentencing hearing. But on

Christineof

Speaker 8that, what I have,

Christineth- this is where

Speaker 8the political theater comes in, and this is where you're seeing this movement. I'm not talking about just, like, Angela Johnson in general. These family court judges, people die in jail.

Christinedie. Yeah. And I understand you have to enforce

Speaker 8your

Christinebut what she did was [00:14:00] issue the bench

Speaker 8warrant, and then if

Christinepaid a

Speaker 8$250 fine,

Christineshe

Speaker 8would recall the bench warrant. To me, that's that

Christinedoing it so

Speaker 8the media, every headline- Mm-hmm ... new bench warrant. 'Cause she knew he was gonna pay the 250. She could have sentenced him

Christine$250- Yeah,

Speaker 8Yeah, but- ... and a review in a week.

TreyBut I could see you

Speaker 7The opposite. If this was

Treyyou would be hypercritical if this was not Matt Bevin, if this was a

Speaker 7pro se person

Treyand she had let Matt Bevin just appear, but she's making

Speaker 7pro se people

Treyin.

Speaker 7You would say that's biased.

Treyshe's

Speaker 7just saying, "

TreyYou gotta follow the rules that

Speaker 7everybody else do."

ChristineI, you're,

Speaker 8I hear what

Christinesaying, but

Speaker 8you're missing my point on this. The actual manpower, and this also goes to

ChristineProsecutors will completely

Speaker 8exploit cops. The manpower

Christineof

Speaker 8putting a bench warrant

Christineinto the system, law enforcement are paid to

Speaker 8serve bench warrants, knowing good and damn well that he

Christinegonna pay the $250

Speaker 8fine. , It was political theater. She could have

Christineup to a $500 fine for that. I don't think the

Speaker 8issuance of a bench warrant is appropriate for that [00:15:00] behavior, especially

Christinegiven the flaws.

Speaker 8But again, she's

Christinedo

Speaker 8what

Christinegonna

Speaker 8do. Well- And I think

Christinegonna

Speaker 8put him in jail '

Christinecause there is

Speaker 8a... Sh\*t, I wanna say tomorrow.

ChristineTomorrow at noon,

Speaker 8I think

Christineif there's not all of these

Speaker 8documents

Christinethen there's

Speaker 8gonna be another bench warrant issued.

TreyWell,

Speaker 7you

Treyagain,

Speaker 7if you order documents be provided... Now, I understand

TreyYou don't like the

Speaker 7fact that this case survived some region of it

Treymoving

Speaker 7forward based on the nature of

Treycase. Mm. I get that. I have

Speaker 7mixed feelings about it.

TreyP-

Speaker 7part of me is fascinated because it's sort of a novel. It's something that really hasn't been-

Speaker 8Mm-hmm ...

Speaker 7that

TreyI haven't seen

Speaker 7tried in Kentucky

Treyand, brought up. So that's always

Speaker 7interesting to me. I'm not sure how much substance

Treyreally is

Speaker 7to it. But we both acknowledge that it is going forward

Treythe

Speaker 7trial stage.

Treyonce you get past that, you get

Speaker 7to do discovery. Judges get to order people to exchange

TreyWhen

Speaker 7you don't

Treyit,

Speaker 7there are consequences. It's just- Yeah, this is, you know- I, [00:16:00] I

TreyAnd eventually, like when you're

Speaker 7under

Treyas a judge, right,

Speaker 7and you

Treyeventually lock someone up or take drastic steps,

Speaker 7it's good to have that record that, okay, I did this. Okay, I recalled it this time,

Treythat d- you know, you've gradually

Speaker 7stepped it up. But

Treyjust across the board,

Speaker 7any time I say do this, you do something else. Yeah. And I'm making a record of it,

TreyI'm punishing you for it. May not be a huge punishment, may

Speaker 7be a small fine here.

TreyBut keep doing it and see

Speaker 7what happens.

Speaker 8And that's family court in a nutshell.

ChristineI'm Mommy and Daddy, and you

Speaker 8work for me. But there was a pleading that was filed that indicates 24 separate documents were submitted.

ChristineI mean,

Speaker 8we will see what

Christinetomorrow. I would

Speaker 8imagine obviously The Courier-Journal is CC'd on all orders. And so I would

Christinewilling

Speaker 8to bet that she issues another bench warrant. I

Christinethink this is gonna backfire

Speaker 8on her catastrophically. And I do- I-

ChristineI wonder,

Speaker 8you know, Angela's one of those

Christinethere's two judges that I would still have

Speaker 8a beer with

Christinein family

Speaker 8court. You know who they are?

Speaker 7No. [00:17:00]

ChristineAngela

Speaker 8Johnson and Lori Goodwin.

Speaker 7Hmm.

Speaker 8They're the only people that I would have any assemblance. I mean, I would have a conversation with all

Christinethem, right? I'm

Speaker 8an adult. Yeah.

ChristineI wouldn't talk sh\*t about

Speaker 8them and then go

Christinepose for a photo. You know

Speaker 8what I mean? But I would absolutely have a beer with Angela Johnson or Lori Goodwin,

Christineand this

Speaker 8is one of those

Christinewhere I feel like

Speaker 8Angela's getting herself in a situation that it, this could

Christinebe one to break.

TreyYeah,

Speaker 7I don't,

Treyyou know, it, it's funny.

Speaker 7Usually, and you and I disagree a lot on political things and a lot of different things, but when

Treyget into what judges have

Speaker 7done on cases- Mm-hmm ... we are usually in lockstep agreement

Treyyou

Speaker 7can't do this-

Treyand here's why

Speaker 7you can't, and it,

Treythis

Speaker 7one I don't, I've not had problems with it in the way that you have in that-

TreyI

Speaker 7mean,

TreyPersonal appearances, I've seen one time where a judge someone get away showing up remotely for a sentencing, I about lost my sh\*t. 'Cause I represented the [00:18:00] person- Mm ... that had been harmed. She was supposed get X number of cars. The other side had them, flaunting them sitting on the property, not turn them over, and the judge basically said, "Turn over these cars the client you go to jail. Here's the sentencing date. I've ordered this. We've been, we've had a hearing on contempt. You're in contempt. Give this." And the dude showed up, and the judge allowed him to show up knowing she couldn't take into custody if he showed up that way. And it drove me crazy 'cause there were just no consequences again. Yeah. But that was the only time I've ever seen it allowed. With sentencing, you need to have your ass in court, and it was always that way. So this isn't, special treatment because it's Matt Bevin. If you're sen- if a judge is sentencing you and you may going to jail, you can't put someone in jail if they're somewhere else appearing remotely. Yeah. It's just not

Speaker 7out of the ordinary to make someone attend a sentencing in person.

Treyfact- No, I don't disagree ... it's

Speaker 7extraordinary to allow, if you were to allow someone to appear and not show up for a sentencing.

Speaker 8I it happens now all the time. And [00:19:00] I don't necessarily disagree with but the, where I have the problem with is it didn't follow the appropriate protocol. seems to me that court just sent out a date in two weeks.

ChristineIt was Memorial Day weekend. I mean, if that had happened to me, I was in Florida, you know, for three weeks. I was house-sitting and f- if they said obviously, and Angela

Speaker 8Johnson said

Christinethis on the record, you

Speaker 8have

Christinemeans to get

Speaker 8here on plane. But the fact

Christineshe

Speaker 8didn't say, "Does

Christineschedule

Speaker 8allow?" Like,

Christineknow, we need to have the

Speaker 8parties be available. It just, it smells

Christinecertain kind of

Speaker 8way to me. I don't

Speaker 7know. I've

Speaker 8never had a judge- And

Speaker 7on top of that, I-

Treyof that, I- I've never had a judge

Speaker 7someone the courtesy of "

TreyAre you available that day

Speaker 7for sentencing?"

Speaker 8Really?

Speaker 7If for a, for the contempt hearing, maybe.

Speaker 8Yeah,

TreyI see

Speaker 7the sentencing itself, that seems like special treatment

Treyme-

ChristineTwo weeks out- ... if you did that ... she had a canceled docket,

Speaker 8and- Now,

Speaker 7two weeks is, d-

Speaker 8yeah ... yeah, that's fucking

ChristineAnd

Speaker 8I

Christineknow, and

Speaker 8that,

Christinething that's

Speaker 8the most upsetting, which

Christinealmost

Speaker 8to some degree why, you know,

ChristineI understand what's happening

Speaker 8in Angela Johnson's dependency, neglect, and abuse docket, and there are some, what I consider to be

Christinereally, really, egregious

Speaker 8and horrific [00:20:00] things that have transpired over the last six months. And I just wish she would dedicate her time to sort of looking at that. And I think that, you know,

Christinecan wrap

Speaker 8up to some degree, do you think

Christinedone more

Speaker 8harm than good?

ChristineAnd I do. I think that I have, I

Speaker 8think me reporting on this has hurt people,

Christineand I- Maybe ... I

Speaker 8I struggle with it.

TreyMaybe, but I, I don't see it

Speaker 7affecting, what we're talking about in this recent

Treyarrest warrant because it's not the first

Speaker 7time. It's contempt, contempt again. It's not showing up,

Treythis is another ti- I mean, it's like she's been

Speaker 7very clear. Like-

Treyokay.

Speaker 7okay. Fine ... if you were in Florida and you didn't show up, like you, you

Treyput

Speaker 7yourself in that position

Treyif a judge said, "You need

Speaker 7to do X, Y, and Z," you would do it. Like, that's the difference.

Speaker 8Well, I

ChristineI

Speaker 8would have a lawyer, and surely to Christ a lawyer.

Christinemean, no, hold on. He's

Speaker 7got an attorney. No, but

Speaker 8here's the

Speaker 7thing. I would think- And the judge

Treythe judge still ruled against him

Speaker 7and said, "You have

Treydo these things." And he

Speaker 7said, "You know what? Fuck

TreyJudge. I'm gonna appear remotely anyway

Christinebecause that's what I'm gonna do." Well, he'd be

Speaker 8be just the same to say, "Fuck

ChristineJudge,"

Speaker 8but no, I used to practice. Like, this is the thing. The pussification

Christineof [00:21:00] Louisville lawyers is like- Hmm ... a real fucking

Speaker 8problem. I

Christineyou

Speaker 8could be charged with a serious felony charge and you could get a date

Christinepassed if you were not available or something like that for a fucking criminal charge, and that's where I'm just like, it is... I talk to these people, you know,

Speaker 8my lawyer,

Christinelike the,

Speaker 8some of the

Christinethey say, and

Speaker 8I

Christineit myself. But yeah, I would think that if I had a attorney on retainer for X amount of, you

Speaker 8know what I mean, that I,

Christineif I got a notice

Speaker 8you gotta be back in two weeks, that it would be like, can you not pa-

Christinecan you not say, "Hey,

Speaker 8listen"-

Speaker 7Or file something.

Speaker 8File something, yeah. Especially

Speaker 7when you know, you know damn well your client's gonna do this again. No,

Treyfile- And he's gonna appear

Speaker 7remotely.

Speaker 8They, even gave a giant middle finger ... like notice

Christineof

Speaker 8unavailability or just say, you know. I don't understand. Yeah. I do think that there is a major-

Christinepussification. Oh

Speaker 8my God ... pussification of Louisville lawyers. The, the- They're scared of

Christinejudges.

Speaker 8They're scared of these court-appointed people. They call me up all day, da

Christineda

Speaker 8da

Christineda da da Oh,

Speaker 8they, I mean, if you guys think I've spoken bad about some of

Christine[00:22:00] judges or GALs or FOCs, you have no idea. The people you're paying

Speaker 8$300 an hour

Christineare crying like a little B-I-T-C whatever

Speaker 8about these people

Christineand, but

Speaker 8they're not filing a motion.

Speaker 7So, so

TreyI just wanna

Speaker 7get this straight.

TreyYou,

Speaker 7you spell out all

Treythe

Speaker 7last letter. Yeah. But you're leaving

Treymystery

Speaker 7here- Yeah ... by not saying the H.

TreyThat's awesome.

Speaker 7No, I mean, the,

Treyknow, you brought up something, and since we're, we're gonna take

Speaker 7a break for a while, I,

TreyI have to agree.

Speaker 7That is one of the things that has stood out to me.

Treyis not something that we cover or we

Speaker 7are focused on.

Treynot focused on attorney conduct, but one

Speaker 7of the things that I've seen It's just attorneys who, you

Treysomething

Speaker 7bad is happening and you're,

Treyyou're either speaking up quietly

Speaker 7and

Treygetting run over,

Speaker 7or you're not saying something- Mm-hmm and you're not fighting. And,

Treyyou know, again, I practiced

Speaker 7a

Treyway. I saw what I did. Mm-hmm. But I also practiced with

Speaker 7a lot of attorneys. Mm-hmm. And I practiced

Treya lot of

Speaker 7attorneys. Like, we would,

Treywe would have to talk about it sometimes

Speaker 7that [00:23:00]

Treythis

Speaker 7judge is screwing up.

Speaker 9Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7They're gonna be angry that I'm filing this, but this has

Treybe dealt with,

Speaker 7and

Treyeveryone here

Speaker 7knows that

Treymight be some blowback, but it is

Speaker 7our job to fight for our clients. Yeah. And we were fighters, and it sometimes had consequences, but

Treysure as hell

Speaker 7didn't just bend over

Treytake it because

Speaker 7oh, you got more cases

Treyfront of this judge or whatever. You fought

Speaker 7for your clients.

Speaker 8Right, and there's not even preserving the record.

Christineand I'm not trying to

Speaker 8say anything

Christineabout different attorneys or whatever. To

Speaker 8each their own. But

Christinethat

Speaker 8dynamic where the attorneys, you know, I really have

Christineto the conclusion

Speaker 8that the attorneys are

Christinereally big problem within the

Speaker 8system and this dynamic because there really are only 10 judges. And if every attorney that called me

Christinecomplain about how dumb,

Speaker 8incompetent, you know, whatever they're doing that's

Christinechildren to be placed in

Speaker 8harmful situations, if they would speak out,

Christinereally could have

Speaker 8real movement.

Christineto some degree, I think

Speaker 8it's kind of

Christinegame.

TreyYeah,

Speaker 7I

Treythere ... I always was aware that there are the people that are [00:24:00] part of,

Speaker 7oh, this

Treyjust how it's done. Mm-hmm. And

Speaker 7they accept that the rules aren't followed, and they play along with that game Mm-hmm ... that

Treyoh, you

Speaker 7know, we don't have

Treyput people on the record. We can just

Speaker 7all show up here and argue our case

Treymotion

Speaker 7hour- Mm-hmm ... and take the

Treyknow, just the

Speaker 7way that

Treydone. You play

Speaker 7that system, you get lots of appointments. I always knew that was going on And that's, I think, the worst part of all of it. But seeing how some of these very

Treythings

Speaker 7have

Treyfought, and

Speaker 7I'm talking about things that it's not just me subjectively saying the judge is being egregious. We're talking about cases that get struck down or a

Treygranted or something comes back with emergency relief

Speaker 7or something

Treya higher court saying, "This is extraordinarily bad."

Speaker 7Mm-hmm.

TreyAnd you go look at a

Speaker 7hearing and

Treythat

Speaker 7it was just

Treybarely fought or not fought at all. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then it was only

Speaker 7fought on the appeal.

Speaker 9Yep.

Speaker 7That just kind of blows my mind. Yep. That how you can sit [00:25:00] there

Treyand see this

Speaker 7happening and,

Treyknow,

Speaker 7we're talking about smart people.

TreyI- it does, it, when, when I watch a

Speaker 7hearing and it's an

TreyI know that just doesn't do a great job, I'm not disappointed when

Speaker 7they make a certain decision. But it's

TreyI see the re- really smart attorneys who do a good job

Speaker 7and know how to fight-

Speaker 9Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 7yeah ... that don't stand up

Treyit sometimes, that has

Speaker 7been

Treythat

Speaker 7has been troubling to

Treythat I kind of just assumed wasn't happening

Speaker 7because of-

Speaker 8They're all com-

Christinecomp- ...

Treymy experience.

ChristineYeah, they're all complacent, and it does seem. And I remember a

Speaker 8couple times

Christinelike, "Okay, I can read the judge," so you got, you understand that this judge is about to just,

Speaker 8like, pop off

Christinego crazy and is not gonna hear this argument. But it, it seems at

Speaker 8every hearing we're watching

Christineand I do

Speaker 8wanna end on

Christinelittle caveat 'cause I don't know that people realize how

Speaker 8much this

Christinehappening. And to go

Speaker 8back to

Christineprosecutors,

Speaker 8you

Christinethat big post that I did where

Speaker 8everyone

ChristineI

Speaker 8was anti-cop and blah, blah, blah. It was shocking to me because the amount of people that reached out

Christineme talking about how

Speaker 8the prosecutors weren't doing their job, and

Christinebeen [00:26:00] recording the prosecutors. These

Speaker 8were alleged victims of crimes.

ChristineBut the recording aspect of in 2026, these FOCs, these lawyers, you're all being

Speaker 8recorded.

Speaker 7Yeah.

TreyI, and I

Speaker 7I mean, I think

Treygood. My experience, I did not deal with

Speaker 7with prosecutors much outside of the, you know, the county, assistant county attorney stuff that happens over in family court. But when it came to egregious domestic violence, rape, druggings, things like that that were happening to my clients

Treyin, within

Speaker 7their marriage, I was always across

Treyboard appalled at how I

Speaker 7w-

Treythe civil action

Speaker 7was able to get relief

Treyprotection where

Speaker 7prosecutors wouldn't do anything. Yep. And where,

Treyyou know, we might

Speaker 7have

Treyon

Speaker 7recording admitting to drugging and raping someone

Treyand

Speaker 7you couldn't get

Treymore

Speaker 7than an assault four with no injury and no jail time. And it's

Speaker 8like- Yeah, I mean, unless you expose corruption, then they're gonna, you know, hypothetically, allegedly add charges.[00:27:00]

Speaker 7And a lot of that is, I mean, I've, I've-

TreyI've seen it happen that, "Oh, well,

Speaker 7they're married,

Treythe rules are

Speaker 7different." No,

Treyis rape. No. There, there

Speaker 7was just like, there's, you know, there-

Speaker 8No ...

Speaker 7there was all kinds of stuff. But I mean, I- that's

Treykinda how I

Speaker 7saw it. But that was the big

Treythat I saw- Yeah when you, between domestic

Speaker 7court

Treyand

Speaker 7prosecutors that, "Oh, well, th- you have

Treycase

Speaker 7over there. We don't have

Treyreally

Speaker 7do very much. You'll get

Treyprotections over there. I

Speaker 7don't have to investigate anything

Treyactually hold anybody accountable."

Speaker 8Right. And I think that's

Christineof this, it fits into this game that I'm talking about, where the attorneys are insulated

Speaker 8because

Christineattorney's gonna say

Speaker 8to you, "Oh my God,

Christineprosecutor's a fucking douchebag," or, "Oh

Speaker 8my God, this cop is

Christinefucking douchebag. Oh

Speaker 8my gosh, this FOC is an idiot, incompetent." But they are socializing with them. And so that's where it gets in that weird dichotomy. It's almost like the attorneys need the-

Christinethey blame the

Speaker 8judges, and then the

Christineblame

Speaker 8that they're overstaffed,

Christineand then the [00:28:00] court-appointed people are, like,

Speaker 8buying Louis Vuitton bags

Christinedoing TikToks and, like, making, you know, more money than the judges

Speaker 8are, and happy houring with the attorneys that are also telling their

Christinehow dumb

Speaker 8they are, and it's just like one big circle.

Speaker 7Yeah, but I-

TreyThat's,

Speaker 7that's the politics of being an adult.

TreyI mean-

ChristineThat's

Speaker 8insane. See, that's again- ...

Christinethat's insane. I don't talk... Okay, I'm gonna tell

Speaker 8don't talk... Okay, I'm gonna tell y'all right now. I

Christineof course I have normal human problems,

Speaker 8all kinds of stuff, but I... You're not gonna find me, even the, when I had cases, even when I socialized

Christineattorneys,

Speaker 8I wasn't

Christinetaking people's money and playing

Speaker 8that game. I just wasn't. And I don't kiss people's ass. Like, I'm authentic. I can't imagine talking about people the way I've heard, former judges

Christineabout Judge Lauren Ogden,

Speaker 8and then s- posing for

Christinephoto. Like, I actually feel sorry

Speaker 8for Lauren in

Christinesituation.

TreyOh, yeah. No, I mean,

Speaker 7the, I agree with

Treythere. The, some,

Speaker 7some of the things that, I

Treyit's, that's not

Speaker 7just her. You hear

Treywith

Speaker 7a lot of judges,

Treyyou'll see on the social media [00:29:00] that

Speaker 7they're, you

Treygetting pictures made with someone

Speaker 7and you're like, "Oh. Oh man, if you only knew what that person said about you-" I mean, I'm talking- "... when you're not out drinking champagne." Oh, that's true. I-

Speaker 8I don't. I

ChristineI don't

Speaker 8sociali- I mean, there are

ChristineI don't like, like, certain attorneys

Speaker 8and stuff

Christinethat,

Speaker 8and I, I could

Christinea courteous conversation

Speaker 8or, but I'm watching my Ps and Qs.

ChristineYeah ... but I don't go,

Speaker 8No, I'm not gonna

Christineto their fucking firm opening and

Speaker 8be like, "What up, buddy?"

Speaker 7Yeah, I mean, that stuff doesn't surprise me, though. I

TreyI just think that's how people are. I think there are just a

Speaker 7lot of,

Treya lot of people

Speaker 7like

TreyI, it

Speaker 7bothered me when it affected my clients. Mm-hmm. Like, and I know it doesn't matter whether you're male or female, but, like,

Treywhen I

Speaker 7would get a female prosecutor and I would have someone who

Treyhad just been treated

Speaker 7horrendously

Treylike, horrible crimes committed against them as a

Speaker 7spouse,

Treyand I would get a

Speaker 7female prosecutor that was gung ho in lockstep, "This guy's never

Treyaway with it. We're not gonna do anything,"

Speaker 7but then I don't have insight as to

Treygoing on that

Speaker 7side of things. I'm [00:30:00] getting things entered in, you

Treythe domestic

Speaker 7case

Treyprotect my client, restraining orders, things like that. That's my side.

Speaker 7And then months will go by, I won't hear anything,

Treythen

Speaker 7they'll, you know, they'll

Treysome, you

Speaker 7know, diversion deal-

Treyor

Speaker 7something where there's no consequences and- Yep ... they dissolve the

Treyno

Speaker 7contact order within the criminal case. And I'm just thinking, how the hell does that happen? When you have something that's... And, and I'm talking about things, the times where it's been- Outrageous ... where it's been proved. Mm-hmm. Like, there isn't an evidentiary issue. Yep. You would guarantee win going on trial because you have

Treythe

Speaker 7person admitting to it on record.

Treyknow what I mean? It's like- This

Christineis- ... what are you

Treydoing?

ChristineThis is

Speaker 8that controversial thing that I've

Christinefrom the

Speaker 8beginning. You

Christinethis whole, it's

Speaker 8everybody wants to fight the

Christinefight the

Speaker 8patriarchy. And it's not white men that are the enemy. The enemy is absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Speaker 7Yeah, yeah. I mean, it, that maximum

Treycrosses race, gender

Speaker 7lines and all of that stuff.

TreyYou, you

Speaker 7happen to have, [00:31:00] you happen to have more white men that have, have the

Treybut,

Speaker 8No, we don't. We don't at all.

ChristineNot in Louisville.

Speaker 7Oh, you... Yeah, no, this is always thing. You're always thinking locally, I'm always thinking nationally, so.

Speaker 8But I mean, even nationally, but we have start looking at men lie, you know, women lie, numbers don't, to quote Jay-Z. But if we have this assumption, even the judge we talked about two episodes ago, it was like, oh, it was first female judge appointed F\*ck that sh\*t. I'm a female, you know? I I'm-

TreyNo, I just meant in the family hierarchy.

Speaker 7I was reading

Treystraight out of it.

Speaker 7I'd actually, when I said it, I thought, "Well,

Treydon't know why that's, that, that's necessary at all." But that's- I just read

Speaker 7it

Treyout of the, the

Speaker 7article

Speaker 8Yeah, but that's the talking point, and that's what, you

Christineeven with

Speaker 8people we've talked about, the patriarchy is doing this

Christinewomen. The patriarchy is

Speaker 8holding this to

ChristineThe reality is the people

Speaker 8that are choosing the abusers in a lot of these DV cases or siding with abusers are females.

Trey[00:32:00] Yeah. No,

Speaker 7I agree. But I also, I disagree with you

Treyon

Speaker 7the, I mean, I think there's a, there's an insidious movement

Treythe

Speaker 7United

Treyright now of men being, you know, the, of misogyny coming back into,

Speaker 8No I

Speaker 7mean

Treysh-

ChristineI

Speaker 8just think that's

Christinetalking point.

Speaker 8No.

Speaker 7I

ChristineI mean,

TreyI-

ChristineNo, I think it's why-

TreyYeah,

Speaker 7I stay off

Treysocial media- But

Speaker 7I mean, I- ...because it takes me five

Treybefore I see

Speaker 7something.

ChristineI think that's part of

Speaker 8it, though. But, but I guess my

Christineis, like, you're a white male. You don't

Speaker 8have to apolo-

ChristineI didn't fill

Speaker 8out a Goo- I'm

Treyapologizing

ChristineI didn't fill out a Google Form when

Speaker 8I came out of the 'stache

Christinechoosing

Speaker 8to

Christinewhite, Caucasian- ... with

Speaker 8blue eyes. That is...

Speaker 7Wow, there's the quote for the T-shirt.

Speaker 8No, but I didn't. I did

Christinenot.

Speaker 8All right.

ChristineNeither have

Speaker 8did I. And so I

ChristineYou know what I mean? I mean,

Speaker 8I have friends of all

Christineraces, all different

Speaker 8but

Christineit's the notion that women can't be

Speaker 8critical of women, or that young children, young males, like, y- are being told,

Christinethe

Speaker 8patriarchy. These are

Christinechildren. They

Speaker 8didn't do anything

Christinef\*cking

Speaker 8anybody.

ChristineI was about to

Speaker 8say, I- Everybody,

Speaker 7calm

Christinedown ...

Treymy kids aren't, my kids aren't being told

Speaker 7that. And-

Speaker 8Society's telling them that ... I

Speaker 7wish, I [00:33:00] wi-

TreyI think, I

Speaker 7don't know.

TreyI think

Speaker 7society, I mean, it depends. It depends on where you're looking

Treysociety. I,

Speaker 7I don't think that

Speaker 8s- In

Speaker 7the court

Speaker 8system, in public education?

Speaker 7Well, I think

Treyyou go, yeah,

Speaker 7but where do they

Treymost of

Speaker 7their time?

TreyIf you're on your phone or you're on the

Speaker 7internet, you're sure as sh\*t not being told that.

Speaker 8I, f- I

Christinedisagree. I don't know.

Speaker 8I, I really do. I think we've gotta be really careful with, like, you know,

Christinewith all of this. I digress. It's like half of a- Yeah Miller

Speaker 8High Life in. W- I love fighting with Trey.

ChristineMaybe we'll fight more in

Speaker 8the future. Cheers.

Speaker 7Oh, I don't think

Treyfighting.

Speaker 7It's interesting-

Speaker 8Conversating ...

Treyconversations.

ChristineDownload the Judge-y app. Support us, support us,

Speaker 8tell your stories. Everything is confidential, confidential- Oh, yeah ... confidential. And we'll make

Christineannouncements

Speaker 8on our website and things

Christinethat nature.

Speaker 7Yeah, and we're gonna be coming out, we're gonna be focusing on building out features. Mm-hmm. Building out, you know, what, what we launched this podcast to build attention for- Yep ... was always the [00:34:00] accountability stuff that we are building- Mm-hmm ... and the communities

Treybuilding,

Speaker 7and we're

Treygonna spend

Speaker 7some time putting more,

Treymore

Speaker 7of our time- Yep directed into that.

Speaker 8Yep. Join the community, tell

Christinestory.

Speaker 8If you want us

Christinekeep going in any capacity and

Speaker 8get

Christineto

Speaker 8research in different areas,

Christinejust have got to have... We made

Speaker 8this very cost-effective. Like I've said on my stories, if you genuinely cannot afford the $10 a month, email me. We will

Christinewaivers. No, I

Speaker 8will. I mean, there

Christinesome

Speaker 8people, we will absolutely take into account your socioeconomic status. We don't want to bar you

Christineparticipating, but you have to

Speaker 8understand this is what makes

Christinemoney. So buy merch.

TreyWhat, what she's telling you is she'll make

Speaker 7you a

Treyand then

Speaker 7she'll

Treyand

Speaker 7ask me, "Is that

Treypossible, and can you make it happen?"

Speaker 7And I'll think, "Oh, sh\*t."

ChristineBye.

TreySee ya. Peace.

Speaker 6Yeah. Yeah. We need some. Justice. [00:35:00] Justin found justice.

SpeakerContent of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to be and should not be construed as legal advice. Engaging with this content does not create an attorney-client relationship between you and the hosts, guests, or their firms. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any law firm, company or organization. We make no representations or warranties regarding the accuracy, completeness, or applicability of the information presented. Any reliance on the information in this podcast is at your own risk. Laws are constantly changing and every situation is unique. You should always seek the advice of a qualified attorney for your specific legal concerns.